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	<title>Comments on: Why Michele Bachmann Should Watch Apollo 13</title>
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		<title>By: W. Earl Allen</title>
		<link>http://blog.scienceinsociety.northwestern.edu/2009/06/why-michele-bachmann-should-watch-apollo-13/comment-page-1/#comment-670</link>
		<dc:creator>W. Earl Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:19:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.scienceinsociety.northwestern.edu/?p=781#comment-670</guid>
		<description>Here are some more thoughtful ideas from &lt;a href=&quot;http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704335904574495643459234318.html?mod=rss_opinion_main&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a  pretty respectable source.&lt;/a&gt; &quot;&quot;The economic reality of research funding, rather than a disinterested and uncoordinated scientific consensus, leads the [climate] models to approximately match one another.&quot;


And another: “Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity...The prospect of domination of the nation’s scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present - and is gravely to be regarded.” — General and President Dwight D. Eisenhower.


&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/galileo/galileoaccount.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Inquisition that forced Galileo Galilei to recant&lt;/a&gt; will live in infamy. So will those whose words and actions supported the malignantly corrosive ideas of catastrophic anthropogenic climate change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here are some more thoughtful ideas from <a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704335904574495643459234318.html?mod=rss_opinion_main" rel="nofollow">a  pretty respectable source.</a> &#8220;&#8221;The economic reality of research funding, rather than a disinterested and uncoordinated scientific consensus, leads the [climate] models to approximately match one another.&#8221;</p>
<p>And another: “Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity&#8230;The prospect of domination of the nation’s scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present &#8211; and is gravely to be regarded.” — General and President Dwight D. Eisenhower.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/galileo/galileoaccount.html" rel="nofollow">The Inquisition that forced Galileo Galilei to recant</a> will live in infamy. So will those whose words and actions supported the malignantly corrosive ideas of catastrophic anthropogenic climate change.</p>
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		<title>By: W. Earl Allen</title>
		<link>http://blog.scienceinsociety.northwestern.edu/2009/06/why-michele-bachmann-should-watch-apollo-13/comment-page-1/#comment-668</link>
		<dc:creator>W. Earl Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 00:13:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.scienceinsociety.northwestern.edu/?p=781#comment-668</guid>
		<description>I care not whether Lyndon LaRouche or George Soros published this paper. It has testable evidence in it, not computer-aided psychic prognostications.

Refute the science, not the publisher.

You are, by the way, using a very common logical fallacy, called &quot;argumentum ad hominem.&quot; Serious scientists attempt to avoid such fallacies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I care not whether Lyndon LaRouche or George Soros published this paper. It has testable evidence in it, not computer-aided psychic prognostications.</p>
<p>Refute the science, not the publisher.</p>
<p>You are, by the way, using a very common logical fallacy, called &#8220;argumentum ad hominem.&#8221; Serious scientists attempt to avoid such fallacies.</p>
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		<title>By: Owen Priest</title>
		<link>http://blog.scienceinsociety.northwestern.edu/2009/06/why-michele-bachmann-should-watch-apollo-13/comment-page-1/#comment-666</link>
		<dc:creator>Owen Priest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:44:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.scienceinsociety.northwestern.edu/?p=781#comment-666</guid>
		<description>Check out http://www.co2web.info/Jaworowski%20CO2%20EIR%202007.pdf ?  I did.   EIR Science is a publication of Lyndon LaRouche, Jr.  Lydon LaRouche is not a climatologist.  In Wikipedia he is described as &quot;a brilliant thinker who has been unfairly persecuted, while critics regard him as a cult leader, conspiracy theorist, fascist, and anti-semite.&quot;  Whether he is a brilliant thinker or an anti-semetic conspiracy theorist, he is not a scientist who is engaged in the kind of research that, to name one, Professor Doran is involved in.  If people go to the literature to get their science, I wish they would not go to &quot;journals&quot; such as EIR Science and 21st Century Science and Technology.  Just because the word &quot;science&quot; is used in the title, there is no guarantee that you will find real science between the pages.  It&#039;s sad that, one day, the Lyndon LaRouches of the world may apologize for misleading their neighbors on earth, but by then it may be too late to reverse the damage that will have been done.
Call me crazy, but I will stick with the 97% who publish in peer-reviwed journals and who have actual degrees in the areas they are studying.  Those are publications that I&#039;ll pay attention to.  Lyndon LaRouche?  Seriously?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check out <a href="http://www.co2web.info/Jaworowski%20CO2%20EIR%202007.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.co2web.info/Jaworowski%20CO2%20EIR%202007.pdf</a> ?  I did.   EIR Science is a publication of Lyndon LaRouche, Jr.  Lydon LaRouche is not a climatologist.  In Wikipedia he is described as &#8220;a brilliant thinker who has been unfairly persecuted, while critics regard him as a cult leader, conspiracy theorist, fascist, and anti-semite.&#8221;  Whether he is a brilliant thinker or an anti-semetic conspiracy theorist, he is not a scientist who is engaged in the kind of research that, to name one, Professor Doran is involved in.  If people go to the literature to get their science, I wish they would not go to &#8220;journals&#8221; such as EIR Science and 21st Century Science and Technology.  Just because the word &#8220;science&#8221; is used in the title, there is no guarantee that you will find real science between the pages.  It&#8217;s sad that, one day, the Lyndon LaRouches of the world may apologize for misleading their neighbors on earth, but by then it may be too late to reverse the damage that will have been done.<br />
Call me crazy, but I will stick with the 97% who publish in peer-reviwed journals and who have actual degrees in the areas they are studying.  Those are publications that I&#8217;ll pay attention to.  Lyndon LaRouche?  Seriously?</p>
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		<title>By: W. Earl Allen</title>
		<link>http://blog.scienceinsociety.northwestern.edu/2009/06/why-michele-bachmann-should-watch-apollo-13/comment-page-1/#comment-665</link>
		<dc:creator>W. Earl Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 04:44:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.scienceinsociety.northwestern.edu/?p=781#comment-665</guid>
		<description>Neither 2% nor 3% is enough to kill. You could be killed by an atmosphere that is 100% nitrogen, 100% argon, or 100% carbon dioxide. All will kill equally well. Aside from natural events like the limnic eruption of Lake Nyos in Cameroon (which humans clearly couldn&#039;t have had anything to do with) the only way you could get killed by carbon dioxide would be to have a carbon dioxide sequestration project blow out and saturate the local atmosphere.

It is physically, chemically, and physiologically impossible for human contributions to the carbon dioxide concentration in the atmosphere to ever approach even a mildly irritating level.

Consensus isn&#039;t science.

Evidence is science.

The debate among scientists who have been bribed by taxpayer money to toe the line on catastrophic climate change is over. Their paycheck depends on telling their political masters the story the politicians want to be told. They no longer debate the issue because it is in their self-interest to ignore any conflicting evidence.

The debate among scientists who have actually looked at the evidence  is still very much alive. The evidence indicates that yes, there is a human contribution to a rise in carbon dioxide concentration, but that the contribution is so small that its climate signature is indistinguishably intertwined with the natural noise of climate change.

Check out http://arxiv.org/pdf/0707.1161 and http://www.co2web.info/Jaworowski%20CO2%20EIR%202007.pdf for some of those scientists for whom evidence is more important than consensus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neither 2% nor 3% is enough to kill. You could be killed by an atmosphere that is 100% nitrogen, 100% argon, or 100% carbon dioxide. All will kill equally well. Aside from natural events like the limnic eruption of Lake Nyos in Cameroon (which humans clearly couldn&#8217;t have had anything to do with) the only way you could get killed by carbon dioxide would be to have a carbon dioxide sequestration project blow out and saturate the local atmosphere.</p>
<p>It is physically, chemically, and physiologically impossible for human contributions to the carbon dioxide concentration in the atmosphere to ever approach even a mildly irritating level.</p>
<p>Consensus isn&#8217;t science.</p>
<p>Evidence is science.</p>
<p>The debate among scientists who have been bribed by taxpayer money to toe the line on catastrophic climate change is over. Their paycheck depends on telling their political masters the story the politicians want to be told. They no longer debate the issue because it is in their self-interest to ignore any conflicting evidence.</p>
<p>The debate among scientists who have actually looked at the evidence  is still very much alive. The evidence indicates that yes, there is a human contribution to a rise in carbon dioxide concentration, but that the contribution is so small that its climate signature is indistinguishably intertwined with the natural noise of climate change.</p>
<p>Check out <a href="http://arxiv.org/pdf/0707.1161" rel="nofollow">http://arxiv.org/pdf/0707.1161</a> and <a href="http://www.co2web.info/Jaworowski%20CO2%20EIR%202007.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.co2web.info/Jaworowski%20CO2%20EIR%202007.pdf</a> for some of those scientists for whom evidence is more important than consensus.</p>
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		<title>By: Owen Priest</title>
		<link>http://blog.scienceinsociety.northwestern.edu/2009/06/why-michele-bachmann-should-watch-apollo-13/comment-page-1/#comment-662</link>
		<dc:creator>Owen Priest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 20:03:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.scienceinsociety.northwestern.edu/?p=781#comment-662</guid>
		<description>The Apollo crew returned safely because they successfully prevented the CO2 concentrations from rising high enough to kill them.
To paraphrase Thomas Friedman, if 97 out of 100 of physicians that I visit tell me that the cancer I have will kill me if not treated and 3 disagree, I will go with the 97.  I would be an idiot not to.  In a recent study conducted at the University of Illinois, 97% of the climatologists surveyed (all active in climate research) agreed that humans are playing a role in global warming.  82% said that human activity has been a &quot;significant factor in changing mean global temperatures.&quot;  I&#039;m not a climatologist, but they are.  As Peter Doran (Professor of Earth and environmental sciences at the University of Illinois at Chicago) said, &quot;The debate on the authenticity of global warming and the role played by human activity is largely nonexistent among those who understand the nuances and scientific basis of long-term climate processes.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Apollo crew returned safely because they successfully prevented the CO2 concentrations from rising high enough to kill them.<br />
To paraphrase Thomas Friedman, if 97 out of 100 of physicians that I visit tell me that the cancer I have will kill me if not treated and 3 disagree, I will go with the 97.  I would be an idiot not to.  In a recent study conducted at the University of Illinois, 97% of the climatologists surveyed (all active in climate research) agreed that humans are playing a role in global warming.  82% said that human activity has been a &#8220;significant factor in changing mean global temperatures.&#8221;  I&#8217;m not a climatologist, but they are.  As Peter Doran (Professor of Earth and environmental sciences at the University of Illinois at Chicago) said, &#8220;The debate on the authenticity of global warming and the role played by human activity is largely nonexistent among those who understand the nuances and scientific basis of long-term climate processes.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: W. Earl Allen</title>
		<link>http://blog.scienceinsociety.northwestern.edu/2009/06/why-michele-bachmann-should-watch-apollo-13/comment-page-1/#comment-652</link>
		<dc:creator>W. Earl Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:18:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.scienceinsociety.northwestern.edu/?p=781#comment-652</guid>
		<description>I think &lt;i&gt;everybody&lt;/i&gt; should pass a scientific literacy test.

Let&#039;s start with what &lt;a href=&quot;http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=12529&amp;page=112&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NASA considers a &quot;no-observed-adverse-effect level (NOAEL)&quot; of 3% CO2 concentration.&lt;/a&gt; Three percent is, as you might notice, 30,000ppm (thirty thousand parts per million). Current &lt;a href=&quot;http://cache4.intelliweather.net/wcw/world_climate_widget_sidebar.gif&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mauna Loa CO2 concentration measurement is ~388 parts per million.&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.biokurs.de/treibhaus/180CO2_supp.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Some well qualified observers have noticed that 388ppm is well within range of CO2 concentrations measured as far back as 1820.&lt;/a&gt; And if you&#039;re skeptical, read &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.biokurs.de/treibhaus/180CO2/author_reply9-2.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this response to critics of those measurements.&lt;/a&gt;

So, 30,000ppm (3%) is, according to NASA, a no-observed-adverse-effect level, and is 400% larger than &lt;a href=&quot;http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/10/16/searching-the-paleoclimate-record-for-estimated-correlations-temperature-co2-and-sea-level/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;any atmospheric concentration ever measured in the atmosphere.&lt;/a&gt;

I&#039;d say Bachmann has read NASA and you haven&#039;t. Even if CO2 concentrations were to reach 400% of the highest levels ever observed in the atmosphere over 525 million years of measurement,  they would still be at a no-observed-adverse-effect level.

And, concentrations in Apollo 13 never rose above 2%, verified by the crew&#039;s returning to earth safely with no observed adverse effects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think <i>everybody</i> should pass a scientific literacy test.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s start with what <a href="http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=12529&amp;page=112" rel="nofollow">NASA considers a &#8220;no-observed-adverse-effect level (NOAEL)&#8221; of 3% CO2 concentration.</a> Three percent is, as you might notice, 30,000ppm (thirty thousand parts per million). Current <a href="http://cache4.intelliweather.net/wcw/world_climate_widget_sidebar.gif" rel="nofollow">Mauna Loa CO2 concentration measurement is ~388 parts per million.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.biokurs.de/treibhaus/180CO2_supp.htm" rel="nofollow">Some well qualified observers have noticed that 388ppm is well within range of CO2 concentrations measured as far back as 1820.</a> And if you&#8217;re skeptical, read <a href="http://www.biokurs.de/treibhaus/180CO2/author_reply9-2.pdf" rel="nofollow">this response to critics of those measurements.</a></p>
<p>So, 30,000ppm (3%) is, according to NASA, a no-observed-adverse-effect level, and is 400% larger than <a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/10/16/searching-the-paleoclimate-record-for-estimated-correlations-temperature-co2-and-sea-level/" rel="nofollow">any atmospheric concentration ever measured in the atmosphere.</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;d say Bachmann has read NASA and you haven&#8217;t. Even if CO2 concentrations were to reach 400% of the highest levels ever observed in the atmosphere over 525 million years of measurement,  they would still be at a no-observed-adverse-effect level.</p>
<p>And, concentrations in Apollo 13 never rose above 2%, verified by the crew&#8217;s returning to earth safely with no observed adverse effects.</p>
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		<title>By: Yul Tolbert</title>
		<link>http://blog.scienceinsociety.northwestern.edu/2009/06/why-michele-bachmann-should-watch-apollo-13/comment-page-1/#comment-493</link>
		<dc:creator>Yul Tolbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:48:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Bachmann is why I wish it were mandatory for all who want to seek political office be required to pass a science literacy test.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bachmann is why I wish it were mandatory for all who want to seek political office be required to pass a science literacy test.</p>
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		<title>By: diborane &#187; Advances in Enzyme Therapy</title>
		<link>http://blog.scienceinsociety.northwestern.edu/2009/06/why-michele-bachmann-should-watch-apollo-13/comment-page-1/#comment-431</link>
		<dc:creator>diborane &#187; Advances in Enzyme Therapy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 19:05:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.scienceinsociety.northwestern.edu/?p=781#comment-431</guid>
		<description>[...] Why Michele Bachmann Should Watch Apollo 13 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Why Michele Bachmann Should Watch Apollo 13 [...]</p>
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